Tell us about 22_22 studio.

“As I had only worked for other people's companies, I eventually felt the urge to create a brand that would represent my own aesthetics and values that would help enable me to share what inspired me personally. Therefore, I decided to merge this idea with my passion for crafts and interior and started my own brand 2222STUDIO under which I design, make and sell interior objects. 2222STUDIO was inspired by my lucky number and time 22:22. Since I was a teenager, I have been superstitious about it and believed that catching this time over and over was no coincidence. I always felt compelled to make wishes for a whole minute until this magic alignment of numbers passed. "

Advice you would give to someone who is interested in starting their own business.

“Just do it! I believe that it’s important to start somewhere with a vision and then figure things out along the way. Too much overthinking and doubting upfront will just block you. "

What do you feel is the best part of your job?

“That it's so versatile, creative, and that I am independent."

3 words that best describe your creative process.

“Intuitive, meditative and passionate."

Favorite song to listen to when you’re working in your studio?

"Okwukwe Na Nchekwube by Celestine Ukwu & his Philosophers"

Name a personal achievement you’re proud of.

“Following and building a career for myself that reflects what I am passionate about."

Name a mistake that taught you a lesson.

“Taking on an order that exceeded my capacity and really challenged my entire setup."

Your top 3 travel destinations. Dream vacation.

“Mexico, Japan, Venice."

Describe your personal style.

“Minimal and eclectic."

The one thing in your wardrobe you can’t live without.

"All my Jackets and coats."

Name a person, place, or thing that inspires you.

"I really like the work of Alicja Kwade. But my brain just picks up on everything that I see around me. It could be super and abstract, light, textures, shapes."

Is that what makes you feel confident?

“A good pair of loafers, yeah. I think one of my confidence boosters is definitely always a good outfit."

Do you think good taste is something you’re born with, or can it be developed?

“I think style and taste is definitely something that you can learn. It’s about what you're interested in, what you’re exposed to and influenced by. It's definitely something that you can adapt and grow into and out of. Personally, the influences from my mom and my dad and their post-colonial heritage, my African heritage, but also the urban references from when I was a kid, shaped my wardrobe. I always go to the same things. I have pieces in my wardrobe that go ten years back and it's the stuff that I love to wear the most. Then, occasionally you add new things."

What are your tips for someone who is developing their own style?

“It starts with knowing who you are. A fashionable look or outfit can sometimes become a way to dress yourself up or to hide who you are, whereas style is about what we actually like and what you can see yourself wearing over and over again that resembles you. Also, read about pieces, find out how the penny loafer came about, the history of the slip dress, or research style icons. What makes hairstyles iconic today? Why do we like 90s fashion so much right now? Why's airport style interesting? I know a lot of men that research trends and decades and fashion and it's really been a way of shaping who they are. I've done the same, more from a research and creative perspective but it definitely helps me to also keep my own style universe sharp."

Who's your style icon?

“My dad. He always inspired me a lot."

Do you hope to be a style icon for your son?

“He already dresses way better than me. I think he already passed me. I just want to be a good role model, that's the most important thing for me."

Has becoming a father changed the way you work?

"Only that I have to leave work a little bit early. I love to work, so that's why I hate having to leave work early. When he sleeps, I really love to work. Especially when I get to live out my dream. I'm so blessed and lucky that he loves coming into work with me. He's an open-minded kid and really at ease around my colleagues. I can bring him anywhere and that really makes my workflow a whole lot better."

What’s your favorite place to work?

“We got our office four months ago and we have a red couch that I love sitting on. The most amazing thing is that our office is an old apartment, so we wanted to create a homey feeling. It's always hard to leave the office which is a good sign of a good workplace, at least for myself."

Where do you like to relax?

“Benches in my city. I love just sitting there and people watching. Not having any plans or any distractions, just a good pair of sunglasses to watch people. If you see me on a bench, you know what I'm doing. It’s the most relaxing thing ever."

As a successful creative, you’ve had a lot of great ideas. Tell us about your worst idea.

“My worst idea? Ha, that’s a good one. I don’t know, I’ve had a few. There was this one project, it was right after I started my first label, I wanted to create something that was more urban. So, we started making baseball t-shirts and the execution was good, but the name was horrible – it was a combination of three French words. I speak French with my parents, so it’s a big part of me and almost everything I do creatively starts with French. We actually got a lot of traction in France, but no one understood what we were trying to say. It was just the most horrible thing I've done. We had to shut it down quite quickly for numerous reasons but mostly the name was just a killer."

Name one thing you hope to get better at.

“I'm always on the go, always thinking about the next step, the next collection, the next campaign, am I picking up my son? I think what I need to be better at is enjoying the present. Enjoying the moment with people that are really dear to me. The thing I really value the most in my life are my relationships. It’s easy to make up an excuse not to meet up or make time for family and friends, but if it matters, then you need to remember to prioritize them. Time flies so fast."

Tell us something you hate to do but have to.

"Every month, I have to go through all my expenses and find all my receipts. It’s a work thing that I hate to do. I try to be really good at it, but I hate it."

And something you love to do but rarely get to.

“I love to read and listen to audiobooks. I hate that I don't have or take the time to do it enough."

Do you have a favorite book?

The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho. Love it. It was really a kickstarter for how I started to believe in myself and knowing that anything you set your mind to is possible."

What's one song you listen to on repeat?

“Gold by Prince. I saw him perform it live at a festival here in Denmark. It was a crazy experience."

Lastly, name a person, place, and thing that inspires you.

"One of the places that inspires me a lot is Marrakech. I like it because it's a place where I always calm down, but I also see so much culture and so much honesty and genuineness in the population. I think, in general, Africa is fun because it's very true to its roots.

For people, I've always been a huge fan of, it’s so cliché, but Denzel Washington. I love that guy mainly because he's really talented and he can wear a lot of hats, so to speak. His body of work combined with who he is as a person, from what he says, how he thinks, how he operates, and his composure is inspirational.

I'm really inspired by tech and how it creates communities. For example, who would have thought even just ten years ago that there would be a car service where you can drive awesome cars without taking anything but your mobile device, logging in, driving it, then leaving it to share with another human being? It’s stuff like that, the whole shared economy in tech, I think is fantastic. It's about being helpful to each other. If the shared economy in tech could be integrated with fashion in a mainstream way, not just in the niches where it is right now, it would definitely be game-changing for the whole world."

It was through you inviting people that you ended up meeting her?

Exactly yeah. She was in that closed account. She reached out to me and we decided to organise events together. We clicked so well that I really felt like it was just way more fun to do it together than just by myself. We share the same vision and I think it’s really unique to find someone in that way.

A perfect example of the power of networking!

It’s super funny - we’re the living example of what you can get out of TEN. We didn’t even realise it in the beginning. We organised many different events from that moment on and we grew into TEN later on.

TEN tells women that “it’s time to step into your power”. What does that mean to you? When do you feel at your most powerful?

I think for everybody stepping into your power can have a different meaning. I think it’s letting go of the things that are holding you back. It’s tapping into the knowledge that is already around you by surrounding yourself with the right people who have the knowledge that you are attracted to and who also want to share that knowledge with you. People who are on the same path in wanting to grow into the best version of themselves. There’s a Harvard study that says that you become like the 5 people that you surround yourself with. I think it’s interesting because I feel that it doesn’t matter what type of studies you’ve done, it really depends on a certain mindset and who you surround yourself with. And I guess that’s also the answer I have for myself – when I surround myself with inspiring people, inspiring women, it definitely gives me a feeling of power and wealth.

Your membership is open to anyone who “believes in the power of feminine energy”. Tell us more.

We’ve always had a focus on women and we often get asked who the platform is available to. We said feminine energy because we actually don’t want to limit it to a gender, but also have the focus on the fact that being in your feminine energy is really powerful as well. You can draw a lot of strength from being in your feminine energy. It depends on your industry but there is a big stigma around being vulnerable, for instance. It’s seen as weak, while I can see that it’s really your power. That’s what we really mean by “in your feminine energy”. We really believe in that and we also want to attract people in our community who stand behind that.

TEN is open to entrepreneurial women from all creative backgrounds. Can you talk about the mix of profiles of your members?

It started out in the creative industry because that’s mostly where my own network was. We narrowed it down and made it into a niche for us. But the longer we were working on TEN, the more we realised that we didn’t want to be limited to only the creative industry. You have so many women with the same spirit who also want to be connected to each other and also feel like they can share their knowledge. It’s actually really nice to have someone talk about finance or generational wealth, which is a totally different topic to what the creative industry is used to or ever has a connection with. We believe it’s super nice to bring these two worlds together. It’s important to learn from that side as well even if maybe it’s not your first interest. We believe in the cross over of different industries. That’s what we realised later on and that’s why we opened it up a bit more. We focus on women with an entrepreneurial spirit, so it could be that you’re working somewhere and want to start a side hustle or eventually work for yourself. Or if you’re in a leading position, that also really fits within our community. The industries are quite broad.

Can you give an example of how you foster human connections through creativity at your events?

Human connection is what we focus most on at our events. The creative thing is something that we sometimes implement but you don’t need to be creative in that sense. For instance, we’ve sometimes hosted ceramics workshops and shared with people that it’s just to get their inner child out and be playful. Not to focus on making something super professional. We added a twist that they had to create a ceramic for someone else – like the person sitting in front of them. Which is fun because they’re then trying to get to know another person and what they like.

Do you have any personal creative practices? Either that feed into your professional work or maybe allow you an escape?

I used to always really love to draw but it’s something I don’t do often anymore. I think in general being creative and working with your hands is something that a lot of people really enjoy but forget to do because you get caught up in all the other things you have to do. That’s what led us to do creative workshops at our events -sometimes you just need to plan that moment. I don’t think a lot of people would easily say, “OK, tonight after dinner I’m going to sit and draw.” I try to sometimes but it’s really easy to get caught up in other things or maybe watch a movie, which is also nice, but it’s not really feeding into your creativity. I think it’s really healthy to do it also.

Maybe you’ll be inspired to do a bit more drawing now! Moving from creativity to culture – TEN has done a few international events now. How does the different cultural setting feed into the experience? Do you feel like each country creates a different vibe for the meet ups?

It’s something that we find super important and that’s why we work with local women when we go to other countries. We really believe it’s a synergy. We bring our concept of finding connection with one another, which is kind of universal – you don’t need language to find a connection with someone. But, of course, there are many different cultural ways of interacting. For instance, in New York people are really outspoken, whereas in Holland, people are more introverted. Our local teams are very valuable to us as they understand what works best.

So, events are tailored to your location?

Yep, and I think this is also something that we want to explore more in the future, to see how we can more specifically tap into the different cultures that we enter.

Do you have a story from an event that stands out as encapsulating what TEN is all about?

It’s difficult to describe only one! I think for Luca and I, any event is really rewarding to us. We both feel really grateful for the gratitude we get from the women who join us because they have felt a connection with someone. We’ve researched that and it’s a basic human need to have these connections. A lot of us don’t even realise how disconnected we all are.

Finally, what are your hopes for the future of TEN?

We want to build our network internationally but also outside the western world because we really want to see how we can connect women globally!

Is there anything that you want to try next?

“Not really. I just want to keep carrying on with the broadcast and keep creating spaces for me to breathe in when it comes to fashion, music, and lifestyle. Everything else is just up to destiny. I'm just happy with where I'm at now."

Music, fashion, travel, sport. If you had to give up one for the rest of your life, what would it be?

“Easily sport. Music is something I listen to every single day. Fashion is something that I have to think about in order to get ready. Sport is something that I do when I have the off time, it's a bit of a hobby, and I'm definitely not making any money from sport haha."

What is the best and worst advice you've ever been given?

“Worst advice is probably somebody telling me somewhere along the line of ‘this is impossible, and you can't do this’. The best advice was ‘move towards it’. It wasn't even advice; I was speaking to one of my mentors at the beginning of the year and saying how much juice and energy I have at the moment and how much I wanted to create. His response was actually just ‘move towards it’ and it made me realize that even a step forward is better than a step back, even if it's a tiny step forward. "

What has been your favorite brand to work with?

“Prada. I loved Prada since I was a child. From the age of 12 to 15, I wore Prada to school. I didn’t go to an affluent school where people had unlimited pools of money, I saved up so much money to buy it. So, it was one of those full circle moments working with them. It wasn't something I did for the paycheck, I'm proud to wear the stuff because of the child in me that just loved to wear them in school."

What's your staple fashion item?

“My staple item would probably be jewelry because we change clothes. So, I would say somewhere between my Cartier bracelet and my Rolex."

Three songs that best represent you.

“At the moment:"

Name your favorite part of London.

“Greenwich, probably. I grew up there and it’s so different anywhere else in London. It’s not super fancy and it's not super hood, it's just normal. It’s so diverse, it’s got both historic and new monuments, and the O2 arena. It’s a good balance."

If you were to live in another city, what would it be?

“Berlin. We love Germany. We haven't been able to go back for a while, but we’ve been fortunate to play a few things in Berlin. It's not like there is a massive hip hop presence but the kind of people there just love the music and are there to have a good time."

Best music venue ever?

“The Elbphilharmonie in Hamburg. I’ve never been there but I’m dying to go. It's incredible, from the layout of it, to the chairs, the light, acoustics, the whole thing. The design and architecture make it the best venue in my opinion."

Name a person, place, and thing that inspires you.

“Person. That’s a hard one. Can I say God? I’ll say God."

“A place that inspires me is London. Naturally. London has so many success stories whether it's football, music, fashion, community lifestyle, culture, business. So many people have made it here."

“In terms of a thing that inspires me, I would probably say, it’s an idea. The idea of achieving everything. Knowing that you could possibly achieve what you put your mind to. Even if you haven’t achieved everything that you want to achieve or know how to exactly, it keeps you going, getting to one hurdle, conquering it, then another. Then you realize everything can be done. I think that is so inspiring."

Is that how you would describe ‘future-proof design’?

Yes, but you cannot design for every possible change. A good design considers which things will or might change and which things are stable or permanent. For OLAF’s office space, the variables are bigger than the retail space. After only half a year, we’re already working on the first big overhaul. That’s how the idea of the cardboard tubes came out. They are flexible building blocks: one tube is one unit and by combining units you can create walls, supports for tables, and those kinds of things. What I also like about the cardboard tube is that it really fits the ‘friendly minimalist’ concept for OLAF. It's round and very soft to the touch which really works for the brand. Secondly, and more importantly, cardboard is one of the most circular building materials you can find. It's local, it’s always so cheap, and if you throw it away it's not downcycled into something of less value, you can basically just make it wet and make new cardboard to reuse again. That’s why cardboard became such a theme in the design. The flexibility and sustainability combined with the aesthetics of being round and soft fit well with the brand.

Do you try to be sustainable in all your projects?

Definitely. I find that many times clients are not ready or asking for it. So, for every project, I find some way to be sustainable, but every project is completely different. For instance, for Ace&Tate, I used corrugated steel which is extremely lightweight but extremely strong. It‘s painted with natural paints and can easily be recycled. In other projects, I also use steel to create building blocks that can be combined like LEGOS. This makes the steel an investment energy-wise because things can be reconfigured and reused, and the material lasts a very long time. I always make sure things are easily recyclable and not downcycled.

Is that your own traditional philosophy in approaching architecture or is this something you experienced with past companies or studios that you've worked in?

It is more what I, as a studio, think is important. It's my job to design a good interior and translation of the brand, so of course it's important that the store has a sustainable impact. When I sit down with many of my clients and we discuss sustainability, I always recommend that they invest a lot of money in things like the most energy-efficient air conditioning system. It’s really boring but the interior, the tables, the floor, are neglectable compared to the energy use of air conditioning. This is just reality. Sustainability is not sexy. It's just about making an investment in good installations. Considering the environment, it’s much more effective than putting hemp wallpaper on the wall.

What has been the most challenging project that you've worked on so far?

A project comes to mind. I was the Global Creative Director for G-Star RAW for years and I had to develop a global concept that had to fit in many different locations: from Helsinki to Abu Dhabi. Sometimes you're in very clean shopping malls and sometimes you're in a 600-year-old building in Brussels or Marseille and it all has to feel like the same brand. To execute a global-sized project like this right takes a lot of time, a lot of trial and error, and a lot of intelligence to come up with a good solution.

Do you have any interior design pet peeves?

Many. But something that I feel is always obsolete is interactive screens. People already have their phones and digital content is a personal experience. What you have on your phone is yours and it's yours only. In my experience, everybody hates going to a screen and interacting with it while everyone can look at you and see what you’re doing. Nobody does it. I have yet to see the first proper application of it, so for me, that's definitely a no. Another reason is that you can do so much online that when you actually decide to venture into the physical world, you're looking for a social and very physical experience where you can meet people and touch stuff.

Is there a space (that you didn’t design) that has left an impression on you recently?

I was in Barcelona last month and I went to the Joan Miró Foundation. He made these beautiful wool tapestries. The wool is really thick but, in some parts, it just comes out like half a meter, it's a landscape that he made. And in the same museum, there is a mercury fountain by Alexander Calder. I just stood there for one hour looking at it. Mercury is a metal but it's liquid and you expect it to behave like water but it's so different. It’s so cool.

Speaking of impressive spaces, tell us about your houseboat.

Yeah, I’m an Amsterdam guy and I live on the water on a newly built houseboat. I, together with an architect, designed the exterior, the whole interior, the flooring levels, staircases, and stuff like that. The materialization, I designed myself. So, it's really a custom-made design and it won the ‘Houseboat of the Year’ award. I can give a day-long lecture on the concept of the house, but the idea is that it really plays with your expectations of space. For some spaces, the ceiling is very low and some spaces the ceiling is really high, and this really changes your experience when you walk through it. I really like this concept that I call ‘non-space’ where if you have something like a corridor but make it twice as wide so it becomes a space where different activities can happen. By playing around with the dimensions of spaces and how they are connected, you can create a lot of moments where it's not clear what the function of the space is but if it's designed well people can come up with many things to actually do there. For instance, in our house, there's a split level and one floor is about a meter higher than the adjacent floor. This is a really nice place to sit because you can look out over the water. The cat always hangs out there because when we pass by it's right at petting height. But when we have people over for dinner, this floor becomes the buffet. At parties, people always sit there because you're sort of in the middle of things and when you sit there, you're still at eye level with the people that stand. It has a million functions that were not specifically assigned to it creating a certain context that encourages play.

What are some of your trend predictions for the future design?

Personally, I don't bother with trends very much. But of course, the big thing right now is AI. Everybody is on experimenting with writing copy and generating images. AI is not able to design interiors for you yet, but it's an extremely handy tool to come up with solutions.

So, are you interested in AI?

Definitely. We have these ongoing research projects that we do at the studio. With ChatGPT and DALL-E, I've been doing small experiments but I wish we were a big brand like Nike so we can get dedicated teams working with AI because there's so much to learn.

Since OLAF celebrates citizens, countries, and cultures, we like to wrap up each interview with the same question: Can you name a person, place, and thing that inspires you?

The mercury fountain is the thing that inspires me because something as simple as a bare material can just sort of really shake your foundation of how you look at it.

A place that inspires me is basically any artisan's workshop, like a specialist that's super good at working with only aluminum or just weaving wool. I love that there's so much to learn, to see, and to experience in a space where you don't understand 5% of what the person who runs it understands. Or like a surgeon who only operates on ankles all day. To us, it’s just one part of the body, but to them, the ankle joint is a universe in itself where every angle is different, and they could talk about it in detail for hours with a sort of love and fascination. I'm always a sucker for these kinds of people.

A person that inspires me is the designer, Jean Prouvé, who is passed away now. He was a modernist designer, but I think he was more of a hardcore one. His aesthetics are much more difficult to like. His stuff was a bit weird but, in a way, I think he was truer to the modernist principles than all the other designers at that time. He just didn't care about public opinion. What I also like about him is that a lot of his clients were just factories, they would come to him and say we need some furniture for the office, and he would he just produce the most amazing stuff. He over-delivered on every aspect of the brief and was completely true to his own ideals. That’s why I always see him as a great designer.

Sticking with the personal life aspect, how do you disconnect from work?

Sport, fully sport. I was raised as an athlete first and foremost and I used to play tennis to a high level. The creative stuff and the design engineering came second. Playing, watching, working out - that’s the way I disconnect massively. I do a lot of football and padel tennis as that’s easy with friends just to mess about.

Then being with family and friends from back home in Birmingham is also nice as well, you know.

Is that sporting background what led to Areté’s sneaker focus?

The sneaker focus comes from my background at Nike combined with where the industry trends were when I started the studio. But we’re setting the theme. We can create almost whatever the client wants. For Raf Simons we did a number of different boots. We were even working on a woman’s heel towards the end and for A-COLD-WALL* we did loafers.

So, you’re not necessarily a sneakerhead then?

I’m not a sneakerhead! In the traditional sense at least. When I was younger there were, of course, particular models that I loved and had. Supreme just brought back a shoe called the Courtposite with their latest Nike collab. It’s a tennis shoe and I had it when I was like 15. I thought I was the sickest kid in these shoes. But I didn’t study footwear design at school. It was more the making of products, the engineering and the industrial design process that I liked, then I fell into footwear because my first job was Nike.

It feels like you can’t talk about creative industries right now without mentioning AI. How do you feel it might impact the future of shoe design?

I’m actually really fascinated by it as part of the concepting phase. When you do your research into your topic, you’ll of course have your own concept ideas that come out of that research. But feeding that into AI and seeing what that spins out will support your own thinking. For me, AI will never replace the top-level creatives because they’ll just learn how to use that to make their own ideas even more developed and advanced. Because if you feed in rubbish, it spits out rubbish. But if you feed in the right stuff, the right concepts, the right references, the right text, what it feeds out can be very interesting. How you then take that to design your piece is then back to the talent of the individual creative.

We’ve used it for a retail project we’re working on right now as part of the early phase of ideation and it was really interesting. It was really fun to use actually.

The tech is useful but the people are still essential! Can you talk us through a human element of shoemaking that really stands out to you?

My eyes were really opened up to the level of skill in factories in the three years I worked for Nike in Vietnam. Of course, you’ve got amazing developers and designers that are sat in Nike’s headquarters. But the unknown, quieter side of things, which is less spoken about, is the amount of skill and experience that exists in the factories. It’s insane. I became big team factory over those three years. Obviously design and the engineering pre-hand over to the factory will have a big impact on the end product, but the biggest impact comes from the quality of the factory you’re working with and the quality of its team.

Any insights into what the future holds for Areté?

Right now, we’re in the process of evolving from footwear studio to product design engineering studio. Footwear will still remain a core part of what we do but we’ll be expanding into new areas such as spatial design, installations, accessory design and apparel. We’re working with the artist Skepta designing his full collection for Puma for example. So we already have a few projects that we’ve started at the beginning of this year which feed into that evolution, so next year you’ll start to see a broader range of projects coming from the studio.

I’ve also started an area in the studio called Future Scope. It’s a small space for us when we have the time to explore ideas that we wouldn’t normally be able to with our client-based projects. It’s more research and innovation focussed. It’s more slow burn and there are no deadlines to hit. So, if we get a topic that we like the sound of or an opportunity to work with a partner on something that we can go deeper into through the lens of innovation, sustainable design or circular engineering, we can put it under Future Scope.

Touching on sustainable design, how easy is it to do within the footwear world?

It’s really difficult. We do the bits that we can – we work with organic cottons and recycled or upcycled materials. But there are still commercial objectives for a lot of our projects and that makes it difficult to go as clean as you could do. We’re working on a project right now within Future Scope that explores this topic with a company in Portland, America, so hopefully we create something that’s ready to share next year.

OLAF stands for Our Life As Friends, which encompasses how we thrive on making connections with countries, cultures and citizens around the globe. How has a life of meeting friends from the different cultures you’ve lived in around the world influenced your life?

I think that it balances you and makes you more of a complete individual because you’ve got so many references to pick from, learn from and absorb. I take bits that I really respect and value and then try to incorporate them into my character. In some ways it helps elevate your thinking just to be exposed to so much. You see the right and wrongs in things. You see how people might approach a certain problem or task in different cultures. I’ve learnt from people of different religions, too. A lot of my friends here in Amsterdam are Muslim and I’ve learnt so much from them about Islam. I just enjoy being a citizen of the world.

You touched on your trajectory from corporate to creative – tell us more about your work and what you’re up to at the moment.

For over a decade, I have worked in and co-owned a bookstore and publishing company called MENDO. At the beginning of 2023, I felt quite ill for the first time in my life. I realised then that I’d spent 12, almost 13 years doing this one project and my profile had become “the book guy”. I love books but it’s a singular, somewhat limiting medium. It’s very capital and time intensive endeavour and not an extremely dynamic process.

One of the biggest drivers for continuing with that business was a responsibility that I felt for my community, being able to offer a beautiful space with beautiful books to everybody from students to retired creatives. I also realised that by getting sick and now also being a dad that I should be a little bit more egotistical. It was actually a big burden to keep the business afloat with all the other ambitions that I still have for my life. I love books, but I’m equally as curious about other mediums. Eight years ago, I was writing a thesis on blockchain technology for my masters, and I just wanted to explore that again – the world of digital, other mediums. I found that the red thread of what inspires me is storytelling.

During this time, I was speaking with a good friend of mine, Jamal, who founded What’s Culture as an Instagram page that puts culture in context, covering all different creative fields from music and entertainment to sports and fashion. We identified an opportunity for me to add value and help grow that platform, building a brand around it and a business model underneath it. I saw how it could still serve as a very valuable contribution to my community and help me tell our stories, but this time not limited to Amsterdam - we’re global.

So, What’s Culture is the major focus right now. How is it developing to be more than the Instagram page?

What you see of What’s Culture at the moment is just the very early stage of everything we have in mind. We’re flipping the traditional business practice by working on our social media, following and community first, building the brand by working from this very strong, very organic foundation. Then we’ll deploy the proper platforms and the physical manifestation of what this will fully be. Of course I loved my store and retail, so we’ll have a physical space again in the future.

We’ve started doing events as we have a good community and following here in Amsterdam, but that’s not what our company will ultimately end up doing. It’s not even a soft launch, this is just connecting with our future customers, a building process. We’re also exploring the business case at the moment, which is another reason why we’ve chosen this strategy. We’re very open, not conventional or conservative. We’re talking with people in educational spaces, AI, community building in different parts of the world, in Africa, in travel, in food. We’re talking with individual artists. All of this to figure out what our culture needs and where the company should grow into. So, yea, right now you can only see a tiny percentage of what we’re building.

That’s extremely intriguing! Sounds like you’ve got big dreams and big plans. You’re involved in More Than Goals, too – what’s that all about?

More Than Goals is the sports platform that’s part of the What’s Culture world. It’s something that I’m very passionate about because it’s a very recent revelation of mine after being sick last year. Before that, I never played sports. I’ve just spent my life reading! But I realised that you need to find a balance between the cerebral and the physical. I believe you need both to have a happy and healthy life.

We truly believe that sport unites and inspires. It’s one of the best motors to connect this world and can solve a lot of issues, from health to racism. But, as in the creative scene, there are still a lot of issues and a lot of untold stories. With More Than Goals we shine a light on these heroes from our culture.

Then there’s also The Other Side which is a magazine, right?

I love print and will always table in printed matters. More Than Goals & What’s Culture published a magazine last year. On one side, it was 'What’s Culture' and on the other side it was 'The Other Side'. It stems from this feeling that me, my friends, our community and other marginalised people have always felt that we’re on the other side of things. It highlights fine art, fine photography and other international, high-end practices from creators of the other side. We’ll also be developing the magazine and incorporating it a bit further in the future. But for now it is not our main focus.

How has becoming a father changed your outlook on life and the way you work?

From a work perspective, it’s taught me to be brave enough to start over and continue growing and learning. Outlook-wise, becoming a father is the most beautiful and profound thing that has happened to me. As a thinker, you tend to have this almost dissociative, observer point of view towards life. But with the birth of my son, this lightning bolt hit me and gave me a more “in the now” perspective. It made me a little less philosophical and agnostic about life. The “now” becomes the most important thing, while building for the “future”. It was also the first time that the way I deployed my life energy went from myself to another human, which was almost like this beautiful ego reset. Now his wants, needs and dreams come before mine. He’s just been the most honest and the wisest teacher I’ve had in my 30 somewhat years of being on this planet. Plus, he’s funny, he’s kind and he loves animals!

To tie the two themes together, how have your friendships played a role in your fatherhood?

It’s been beautiful to see our friend group developing from young bachelors, to starting relationships, some have gotten married and now having kids or becoming uncles, as I say. It’s grown very organically. The conversations shift. We’ve found a lot of solace in each other in fatherhood. It’s been fun having more friends with kids. Some friends don’t want kids or it’s not their time right now, but that’s also amazing. I think both perspectives are worthwhile.

We all have one thing in common though - a migrant or refugee background. We’re all this first generation, which means that we don’t have the traditional family structure around us. So, besides our businesses or careers, one of the things I’m very proud of and think is super important is that we’re building our own. I think it’s extremely valuable for the next generation. My son now has a bunch of uncles and aunties. I love that, at 5 years old, he can walk around Amsterdam and say, “oh that’s Uncle Olaf’s store, that’s Uncle Hussein’s. Jefferson’s & Adberahmanne's store, look that’s Uncle Guillaume’s store, that’s daddy’s library”. He can really have a sense of belonging growing up and of actually owning some of the reality that he sees around him. We’re able to give our next generation a different experience, context and framework to what we had.

Finally, what’s the most important value in your friendships?

Loyalty. We’ve been through ups and downs, successes and failures, good and bad times and the most important thing that’s always been there is loyalty. It’s a very nice feeling to know that you have people who have your back regardless.

You describe your work as shaping “visionary new worlds”. I’d love to know more about what your vision entails.

For me it’s about creating something that opens people’s eyes and minds. That’s always the base of what I do. It’s a need to create something that changes something in some way. It doesn’t always need to be big - the smallest change can become something big.

What does a dream new world look like to you?

One where there’s room for perspectives that are completely different from the male, Eurocentric perspectives that have shaped the norm for so long. That’s why my slogan is “The Future is Female and African”. I really believe that it’s time for not only for women to be more in charge but also for African people and people from the Global South in general. People who are typically ignored and not seen as valuable or visionary. So that’s my dream world I would say – one where we can share more of our stories, our space and our power.

You also run your fashion brand Libaya - what pushed you to start the brand alongside all your other projects?

I’ve always been inspired by fashion but I didn’t think that I would start my own brand. What really pushed me was when I started travelling a lot to West Africa for work and I became so inspired by the women there. I started getting things made by local female tailors and friends would ask me who’d made them, if they could get them too or even if they came from certain high street stores. I found it very interesting that people were directly connecting these types of styles to western fashion because, to me, they were really tied to the way I’ve seen my mum, my aunties and the tailors dressing. It made me realise that people had forgotten that these women have always been part of the global book of style. So, I decided to remind them about it.

Can you expand on how these women’s style influences your designs?

One interesting example is that when we think about basics from a Eurocentric perspective, we think about jeans or a t-shirt. But from a Congolese perspective, I think about a wrapper, an off-the-shoulder top, puffy arms, ruffles or a wide A-line dress that you can wear around the market. I was inspired to redefine the way people feel about a basic. The name “Libaya” is also connected to the whole idea of Congolese basics because it means a traditionally tailored top. It’s really just a staple item.

You particularly love an off-the-shoulder style for your designs. Why do you think it’s such a key part of Congolese fashion?

I would say that it’s a reflection of a kind of carefree way of living. People do things slowly and things don’t have to be perfect. It’s just a woman who decides to put something on and then just lets it hang in a totally relaxed way, you know.

Do you have a particular process for how you find inspiration and then interpret it into a final collection?

It always just comes from looking at African women, pictures of my mum and vintage inspiration. Especially from around the 70s/80s after independence when a lot of African women felt entirely free to express themselves. I just take elements and I create when I feel like creating.

What does the future hold for the brand?

I want to grow, but slowly, and I want to find different ways of expressing that female and African future that I believe in. I’d love to do collaborations, especially with brands that create something totally different from myself. I want to inject my world of sun, rumba, love from the motherland and all these women that came before me into their world.

I’ve also been rethinking a lot recently. I used to make collections and now I’m focusing more on making pieces. I don’t want to produce a lot of unnecessary things. I want to create things that I feel women need, that really last and that can be worn in different seasons of your life. Especially as women, if your body or your life changes, you should be able to wear that top or that dress that you bought from Libaya. I also want to make things that women can share with friends or their grandma or their mum, you know. I personally feel that I need more of that in my life.

Your book, “More Than Fashion Girls” (Meer dan modemeisjes), comes out at the end of 2024. What’s it about?

I started writing it in a moment where I felt so seen by the fashion industry and had lots of opportunities coming my way. But my gut was telling me that something just wasn’t matching. I realised I was becoming part of this big industry that I’d always wanted to challenge. I still do that with my brand and through my consultancy, of course, but I just felt that I needed to speak the truth. Even if I’m part of the problem, even if I’m not able to change the entire reality of fashion, I still need to be honest. My upbringing taught me to always go through life with my eyes very open, question things and not conform. So, when I first started working in the industry, I always felt that I was more than just a fashion girl. Because it has never been about just the clothes. It has always been about showing people a new way to look to the world. So that’s what I’m doing with my book.

Can you tell us more about how?

It has a lot of stories that celebrate people from the Global South and the women that inspired me in my life – my mum, aunties, African women in general. The fashion element is just a tool. It’s a book about a new world. I’m not pretending to know all the answers or as if this book is the answer. It’s really a journey and a search for myself. I’ve confronted myself on a lot of levels during the writing process. In the end, I feel like the book is very uncomfortable, very critical and therefore very beautiful and hopeful. It reflects my belief that our role as women in fashion is to change the world and will help other people to confront themselves, too.

What have you learned about yourself during the process?

You just get to know yourself. You’re putting so many of your own personal thoughts and visions of the future on paper, then accepting that it will be printed and that a lot of people will read it and have opinions on it. It’s also made me realise that you can be so many things. I mean, I’m a writer now. I feel now that if you have a good story, then you’re a writer. And I think many of us have one.

OLAF is all about living Our Life As Friends. The way you involve and give back to your community through your work, in my eyes, makes you a true friend to your community. Does that resonate with you?

To me, without community you have nothing. It’s the essence of so many things that we do. I think we create things to become part of one and to connect with each other. My brand has always been about creating a community that can relate to each other, that wants to move forward together. Not just on paper but in reality. When I think about my community, I think mostly about the tailors. I really consider them as friends and family. Being a friend of your community is about being aware that everything is connected and everything you do affects someone else. I think that’s what the fashion industry also forgot for a while – being friends with everyone we create with.

To end on a word of wisdom – what’s one thing you think everyone could do to be a better friend to their own communities?

Just really listen to each other and invite people that are different from you to be part of what you’re doing. Value everyone who’s different. And the beautiful thing about doing that is that you’ll most likely realise that you’re actually more connected than you thought.

What's your first memory of food from a young age, and did that drive you into this industry?

My passion for this industry stems from my childhood on the farm, where we enjoyed simple shared meals like barbecues and big plates of garden vegetables. I loved being surrounded by people, and those memories of joy, togetherness, and shared moments are something I truly cherish.

Would you say that is how Copain came about?

Yes, Copain reflects the idea of "sharing bread," symbolising companionship and the shared enjoyment of food and moments. The name, derived from the French word for "friend," emphasises the importance of togetherness and connection.

During the pandemic, a friend from Paris started hosting large dinner parties at her home, collaborating with artists and designers. What began as casual gatherings for friends evolved into events for the fashion industry and other creative companies. I still call her for advice and support, and sometimes I long for the simplicity of those early days.

How did you learn how to cook?

I've worked as a waitress in various settings, from Michelin-star restaurants to McDonald's. In France, I set up tables and cleaned villas in Cannes, learning something new at every job. My background in sports, where discipline was key, pushed me to work hard in catering. Discipline runs in the family - my dad is a world rowing cup rower.

Do you draw a lot of inspiration from your friends from South America and your time living in France?

Yes and no, connecting through food & music is important to me. But my cuisine is modern, I focus on flavours and techniques from the modern cuisine and seasonal ingredients. I also work with a forager, "Spruitje Greens," who supplies herbs and flowers that take the dishes to another level.

Can you recall your first big catering experience?

I can't remember exactly, but it involved a lot of personalised details, like making tablecloths and flower arrangements. Every event is different and tailored to the client's needs.

You mentioned that you wanted to make these experiences more accessible. How do you manage that in this industry?

That’s why I’m opening a restaurant, to make my food more accessible to friends, the community, and others who can experience it firsthand. It’s also a chance for me to take a breath, as managing large projects can be intense and sometimes detracts from the joy of cooking and connecting with people.

Can you tell us more about why you feel that way?

Sometimes I wonder, "What am I doing?" I often find myself crying in bed because the hard work is overwhelming. I get a lot of support from my family, boyfriend and friends though. Despite the challenges, I wouldn't change a thing, I truly love what I do. Building my brand has felt like a battle, from deciding whether to invest in kitchen equipment to questioning if this is what I want to do for the rest of my life.

When you have those questions of why you're doing it, where do you tend to get your inspiration?

I love the process of connecting food with people. I’m passionate about collaborating with those in fashion, design, art, and the food industry. There’s a fine line between these fields, and I see opportunities to work with artists and designers, all while weaving food into the storytelling. That’s the direction I want to pursue.

So you're redefining what food and art can be together?

Yes, I’m trying to make it work. For example, my restaurant space is 200 m² of concrete with a 7.20 m high ceiling, which allows for exciting collaborations with light artists and creatives. However, all these elements come with a price. I’m considering seeking sponsors and finding ways to make it more accessible.

Would you see it as two separate entities or one big thing?

I think I would see them working together. If I can get it [the restuarant] sponsored, I can make it more accessible. For example, I worked with Oatly once, and they allowed me to invite all my friends for free. It was amazing because my friends could finally experience what I do.

You seem to care a lot about including your community and making your events accessible to regular people, and not only influencers.

I prefer to reach people who are genuinely interested in a beautiful experience but may not have the means for it. For an opening party, I want to invite all my friends and their connections, as it feels more fun and authentic that way.

How do you manage being part of an industry that you sometimes criticise?

It's challenging. My boyfriend is anti-Instagram, so we work to balance our personal lives and work. I have a friend who helps with content creation, and I try to avoid being on my phone constantly. When working on projects like the restaurant, it's tough not to just replicate what others are doing. I strive to find inspiration in unique ways, focusing on colours and patterns rather than copying entire looks.

What do you want your space to say when people enter?

I struggle with that because I like fancy stuff, but my favourite places are more relaxed and casual. I want to make it accessible but also unique. It's hard to find that balance in a grey, concrete space. I'm trying to use colour and wood to make it warm and inviting without being boring.

Does your boyfriend help you with these projects?

Yes, but we make sure to separate work from personal life. We handle practical aspects like installations and systems during work hours and focus on our relationship outside of that. But it’s hard because he is also the architect working with his partner for the restaurant.

What are some of the practical challenges you've faced while building this project?

It’s mostly about managing logistics, installations, and systems to ensure everything is both practical and aesthetically pleasing.

You've come a long way since 2020. Are you proud of what you've accomplished?

Yes, but sometimes it’s hard to see because I’m often stressed and focused on the next thing. It’s a long journey, but I’m excited about the future. I’m proud of what I’ve built with my team so far, and I’m eager to share it with everyone. It’s been a lot of hard work, and I look forward to what’s next.

Do you have one dinner in particular that stands out to you?

One of my most memorable dinners was for Jill Kortleve, a model from Amsterdam who is now very known. I love how she stays true to herself and posts humorous things like French fries and frikandellen on her socials. She asked me to cater her birthday, and she wanted a table set up in the middle of cars at a Volvo dealership. It was a fun and creative project, but challenging especially when the electricity went out after the first course. My two chefs looked to me for guidance, and since the theme was murder and mystery, the blackout actually worked to our advantage.

We set up a round table on an auto lift, surrounded by dry ice for dramatic steam, and served charcoal cocktails with a dark black colour to match the theme. My mom collected branches from the forest, which we adorned with draping red flowers by Rae Blooms. It was both surreal and exciting. I hope one of my future birthday parties will be just cool as I did for her!

What has been the most challenging part of your journey so far?

The biggest challenges are managing highly personalised client requests. Previously, I made mood boards before finalising the budget, but now I need to understand what they really want me to do for them.

I visit the location, meet the team, create a detailed list, and rent necessary items for themed projects. Setting up, cleaning, and transporting dishes is time consuming, and catering logistics are complex, as it differ from a restaurant's straightforward menu.

Currently, I have a house full of ingredients, kitchen equipment, tablecloths, and glassware. I look forward to having a dedicated space to streamline operations, rather than renting kitchens and carrying heavy items without a lift.

That sounds incredibly challenging. How do you manage all that?

It’s really tough. I now focus only on big projects, because small ones aren’t worth the effort, as I don't have a set space where I can work from. It’s about quality over quantity. Despite the hard work, I love what I do and am very excited about the future.

What would you say is your best advice to people who want to start something for themselves and are very creative?

That's a big question! My advice is to be yourself. Many people try to please others instead of staying true to their vision, which often leads to dissatisfaction. For instance, if aspiring chefs focus solely on cooking for influencers or seeking fame, they’re likely to end up unhappy. Set small, achievable goals that lead you toward your larger aspirations. When I started, I wasn’t aiming to cook for big brands, it happened as I showcased my work.

Being genuine and passionate about what you love is always better than chasing what you think others will like. Authenticity is key to achieving the career, income, and connections you want. Stay true to yourself and keep it real.

It's challenging for me as well, since I’m involved in “food curating.” You can easily fall into the comparison trap, especially in a place like Amsterdam. However, I find inspiration in my colleagues’ work and stay grounded with the support of friends and family. It's important to seek inspiration beyond social media.

How has your entrepreneurship impacted communities so far?

One impactful story is about Joyce, who is one of our managers at She for She in Uganda. Despite lacking formal education, her natural leadership stood out. Over the period of us working together, I promoted her, doubled her salary, and supported her pursuit of education. Now, both she and her daughter are graduating school at the same time.

I remember when she came in, I could see something in her, but she was not educated at all and at the time we had a manager that was educated, who had a master’s degree but she couldn’t connect with our colleagues whereby Joyce had the ability to encourage the workers. I remember sitting her down and telling her that I want her to become a manager and then that we were going to double her salary and she cried. I'm following her journey of being our manager and I remember taking her to the Red Cross to have meetings with founders and seeing her grow. Right now she's going to graduate from primary school and her daughter is graduating high school.

Give her that education and for her to be able to send her child to school and now they're going to graduate at the same time. That is the biggest impact I can have for her. I think that work has so many impacts, but for me empowering other women and making sure that you pay people their salary, but you don't know how it's changing their life.

And I think we should be more mindful of not just hiring people, but also of the fact that one day when they leave us, you want them to leave you with so much that you can be proud of who they become by being around you. That’s the real impact—helping others grow and giving them opportunities they never imagined.

Your journey spans many fields. Which role do you prioritise?

I’d describe myself as an entrepreneur, especially a social media entrepreneur. Social media has allowed me to define myself and my business, reaching people I wouldn’t have otherwise. I avoid fixed titles since I believe in evolving — I might be a writer or chef in two years. For now, I’m an entrepreneur who turns ideas into action, often launching them on Instagram.

Did you set specific goals this year for your initiatives?

This year, I aim to provide pads to 3,000 more girls. Privately, I also want to rebuild my savings after buying an apartment and learning to improve my focus. Focusing is challenging, especially in our social media-driven world, but I’m working on it by using to-do lists for the next day that I write down before bed and learning from TED Talks.

How did you come up with the name "Girls Will Be Girls"?

It’s a play on “boys will be boys,” challenging the idea that the freedom to act how you want is only for boys. When we’re young, no one defines us yet—we’re just kids doing what we love, whether it’s football or mountain biking. But over time, we get told what girls should or shouldn’t do. I wanted to reclaim that, reminding people that girls can have fun and be free too. It’s about breaking the idea that only boys get to push boundaries.

You mentioned how important your friendships are. Have they always supported you in your journey?

I’m lucky. I have a best friend, Tina, who’s never said “no” to my dreams. Even when we had no idea what we were doing, she always encouraged me. It’s crucial to have friends who lift you up, not tear you down. My friends are clapping for me, but at times they would also challenge me. They’d ask “have you looked at it in this way? Or have you seen it in that way? Oh, I know a girl in another country doing something similar.” I’d much rather have such feedback than hearing “no, no, no, don't do that.”

I just really love being around women who empower me and who see me in spaces I perhaps don't yet see myself. Women who mention you in rooms you’re not in are so valuable. I’m very picky about who I keep close now. I surround myself with people who challenge me, teach me, and inspire me, rather than just agreeing with everything. It’s about having friends who push you to grow, who see potential in you even when you don’t.

How have you built an audience, especially in spaces that can be difficult to break into?

I’d been writing about racism for 10 years before George Floyd’s death. After that, being vocal about these issues suddenly became more visible. Before, I was mostly writing articles and appearing on TV, but after his death, I started getting more brand deals and recognition. Still, it’s a challenge with social media shadowbans. I’ve realised that real connection happens more in person. You can make people feel something deeper face-to-face, which builds stronger communities than what’s possible through a screen.

Balancing your activism and personal life must be difficult. How do you stay motivated?

Being an entrepreneur means you’re never really off. I’ve learned that if I burn out, nothing gets done. I keep a checklist for opportunities: will I learn something, will it pay me, and will I grow from it? But the moments that truly keep me going are when I feel like I’ve made a real impact. Once after a panel talk I did during Citizens Sessions, a young Ugandan man told me it was the first time he’d seen a Ugandan woman like him speaking on stage. Moments like that remind me why I do this. I felt like crying. I am so inspired because this was the first time in my life a situation like this happened. He was 27 and I knew at that moment that he's not going to be the same. I knew that his dreams had changed. And just because of that, I’m going to spaces where I know that I’m really giving something and also motivating others.

Do you feel pressure to always be an example?

I try not to put pressure on myself to always be an activist. Sometimes, I just want to be a woman enjoying life. But society often politicizes everything I do. It’s hard to just be yourself without people expecting you to comment on every issue. I’ve learned to set boundaries, deciding when and what I want to speak about.

How do you handle criticism when you don’t speak out on certain topics?

People can be demanding—if you speak out, you’re criticized; if you don’t, you’re criticized. I’ve learned to ignore those messages and share what I feel is right. My friend once told me, that just because something is important to you doesn’t mean it’s someone else’s top priority. Everyone has their struggles, and we need more empathy online and in person.

Looking at the journey so far, you've done so much. If you were to say, what are you the most proud of?

Oh my God. Now you're going to make me cry. I have a niece. Her name is Maria and she follows me on Instagram, and comments on all my things. And when she says to me “I'm so proud of you. I just want to be just like you.” It's not because she's my niece, it's because of me. Growing up in Denmark, I did not have “me” to see as a representation. So her having me means there's so many other girls who look like me and who have “me”. That’s what I’m most proud of, and that's enough.

What advice would you give young women looking to make a difference?

The most beautiful thing you can do is to become everything you dream of. Never dim your light. Take up space and strive to be the best version of yourself every day.